SGA 509 - And the real love-triangle is...

[patk]

But rather John/Rodney/Keller. *puts tinhat on, steps up on soapbox, grabs pointer and flip chart*

Rodney:

We know that Rodney was thinking about "reproducing" since as early as season 2. The only remark I can think of immediately is from "Runner", when he talks to Lorne: "As it is, I may have to forego reproducing." But I think we heard something similar from him (passing on his genes or something like that) at least once more and I *think* it was even earlier (though not sure, if someone can remember this, please, let me know). It seems the nebulous, vague idea of "reproducing" was there before he even had an "appropriate" candidate who could participate as well in said "reproduction".

The next ep is "Duet" which has Rodney having a (first?) date with Katie Brown and Carson being very surprised about Rodney having a date "with a woman". Which I don't count so much as a pointer towards him being gay but rather towards him having dated not noticeably before, hence Carson's surprise.

Notice the order: first the idea of "reproduction", *then* the sudden dating of a woman of appropriateness, so to speak.

Disaster strikes in the form of Cadman possessing his body and the next time we hear from Katie it's almost two years later in "Sunday", when we learn that

a)Rodney avoided her for a few month after "Duet" and
b)quote Rodney: "I mean, she and I see so little of each other, I’m not sure we even count as a couple. "

Yeah, seems like a true, hot love affair.

Interesting that this is the same episode in which we see John addressing the possibility of Ronon being interested in "a man" which makes it pretty clear that Sheppard apparently doesn't have any big problems with this particular concept.

Anyway.

Rodney has a pretty awkward talk with Katie in "Sunday" in which he admits:

"It’s funny, you know? I mean, much as I hate to admit it, seeing my little sister so happy with her family, I just ... Well, it kind of made me realise that, uh ... well, I’d like to get married."

Which gives me the impression that he hasn't fallen so much for a certain woman - like Katie - but has fallen for the *idea* of having a family, meaning a wife and kids, triggered by - I guess - the events in "McKay and Mrs. Miller".

And their smoldering hot relationship smolders on and on and on - over "Tabula Rasa" where he almost loses her (but even this doesn't trigger an immediate response in form of a proposal) and it takes *Jeannie's* prodding, to spur him into action.

JEANIE: So, are you gonna marry her?

McKAY: I don't know.

JEANIE: You've been dating for over a year now.

McKAY: I'm aware of that, thank you!

JEANIE: You think you're gonna find someone better?

McKAY: No, it's not that.

JEANIE (laughing): ‘Cause you're not!

And finally, a few eps later, in "Quarantine" we see the train-wreck of proposal happening with the foreseeable result.

And the *next* thing we see on this front is Rodney considering Keller.

What can I say, to me, this looks suspiciously as if Rodney still hasn't given up on the "I want a family"-concept but has just wandered on to the next "appropriate" and "available" woman who might be a good candidate to bring that concept to life. Don't get me wrong, I actually believe that he *thinks* he loves her - after all, she *is* not bad in handling him - and doesn't actually acts consciously in the way I spin the tale here.

If he would, he wouldn't chose Keller since a woman like her most likely won't share his (assumed) idea of a Miller-like model-family because, who do you think would be supposed to take back a step or two from the job in order to take care of Rodney's kids? Rodney? Between Jumper-maintenance, looking for a way to build ZPMs and saving the Pegasus-galaxy on a weekly basis? Yeah, thought so.

Plus, as it was with Katie, he has already started to put on an "act" around her. He's trying to impress her, "change" himself in order to appeal to her and since he doesn't do this because he himself wants it but only for her sake, this is bound to fail sooner or later. He may even marry her but I bet a year's salary this marriage won't (or wouldn't, depending on what happens during the rest of the season) survive either the first year or the birth of their first child, whatever comes first.

Now, since we know the *real* reason why Rodney McKay chases after women but somehow seems to lack a certain passion while doing so, let's take a look at the question who he might actually *want* to chase after, but hasn't *realized* it up to now because he got on the wrong track with that family-idea and hasn't left it yet.

This question is answered with two words: "The Shrine".

And what is John's position on all that?

John is seriously and silently pining after Rodney, of course, but won't *ever* act on it 'cause Rodney is chasing persistently (though so far *literally* fruitlessly) his dream of kids and family and therefore marriageable women.

Seriously.

From John's "like a friend" (Tao), over Rodney's dead being his biggest fear (Doppelgänger), his anxious question for McKay at the end of "Tabula Rasa", his "I can't" from "Miller's Crossing" (the moment that turned "John loves Rodney" into my personal canon) and the whole Wallace-thing, his face in "Quarantine" when he learned about Rodney's plan to marry Katie right up to his "McKay's alive?" in "Search and Rescue" and the way he looks up and down Keller's back in "The Seed" - the moments where you can see how much Rodney means to John get more frequent and stronger, compared to the earlier seasons.

And then came "The Shrine" and I don't think I have to comment on that.

Now "Tracker" opened with a scene that's very hard to interpret in any other way than John feeling hurt an jealous. Yes, granted, he could feel hurt and jealous because suddenly he plays the second fiddle to Keller when it comes to Rodney's priorities on with whom he wants to spend his day off, but I have my tinhat firmly in place right now. *G*

The way John presses his lips together and turns around to leave without another word or so much as a "later" ... well, what can I say...

I can't help it, it makes so much sense to see it like that. Rodney chasing after his idea of having an ideal "Miller-family" and therefore approaching women like Katie and Jennifer despite John (unperceived) being the most important (and as we saw in The Shrine most unforgettable) person in his life, the one he gravitates towards when everything else is leaving him, and John watching him year after year after year, falling in love with him and never saying a word 'cause, yeah, Rodney's going for a *family*, with kids, something John can't provide anyway and seeing him "falling" for Keller hurts a little more than everything else before 'cause he knows from "The Last Man" that Keller actually *is* a possible match for Rodney.

*takes tinhat off, polishes it happily with a sleeve*

Yeah, they *do* have their love-triangle on SGA but it's not quite the one they were aiming for.

And I love it. *G*.

Comments

[sgamadison.livejournal.com]

I have to clap my hands with glee here because you brought up all the points I'd been making to myself and others, as well as some others I hadn't considered. A nice summation of the progression of the relationship over all as well.

The glee comes in as I am currently working with the_cephalopod on a fic that covers just these points, though I must admit the reproduction/family issue did not strike me as forcibly as it did you--I think we're going to have to look harder at that as we write. I'm going to direct Cep here because I think she needs to read this!

Also, no one hit me here, but I *love* the Rodney/Keller/Ronon triangle that canon would have us believe is real. I love it because there is so much ground for comedic fodder, but more importantly, a perfectly balanced triangle, with Keller as a focal point, will go *no where*. She can teeter between Rodney and Ronon for *years* and never have to commit within the limited amount of time left to canon (note that I do not believe there will be more than one SGA movie). As such, we do not have to watch Rodney getting married, having kids etc. :-)

[patk.livejournal.com]

Thank you, that's very nice of you to say. :-)

Oh, a fic that covers these points? I'm *excited* to hear that. Actually, the first time I made this entry I was tempted to end it with "Now, please, someone writes a story covering all that" but decided against it since it sounded somewhat ... *uhm* demanding. *G* Now I'm all the more glad to hear that you and The Cephalopod have actually something like that in the works. :-) And of course, send her over, the more the merrier. *G*

And you have nothing to fear, nobody is going to hit anybody here. ;-) While I don't exactly love the RKR-triangle, I like the fact that it actually gives us pining, jealous John as a result (and I noticed the jealousy towards Keller even before Tracker. The Seed, for example, the way John's smile instantly vanishes and he sizes her back up and down the very moment she turns around to leave the infirmary). In this way Keller as the obstacle works pretty well for me and the funny potential I can see too.

The only thing I fear is that the writers actually *do* mess up and marry them before the season ends or do it in the movie instead of keeping it in the balance. This I wouldn't want to see ... except... yeah, Rodney as the tragic widower comforted by John (who never really left his side, of course) that too would work for me. *G*

[sgamadison.livejournal.com]

*snort* I could *so* get behind a "Let's kill Keller" movment...

[patk.livejournal.com]

*ggg* Starting a new campaign? ;-)

Actually, aside from her being a potential love-interest for Rodney, I have nothing specific against her character. Don't particularly like her but also don't particularly dislike her, she leaves me kind of cold but, you know, if the script-writers actually *do* kill her at some point towards the end of the official canon, I would actually *prefer* if she had a relationship with Rodney before her dead. *If* they give us the "John is *there* for Rodney"-moment in the aftermath, that is. *G*

And because I would *so* look forward to the flood of "John comforts Rodney which leads to Rodney acknowledging his *true* love"-fics. :-)

[sgamadison.livejournal.com]

My dislike stems largely from the fact that her obvious youth and frequent indecisivness make her inappropriate to act as CMO. I could buy it if they were still cut off from Earth and she was all they had, but c'mon, they have more choices here...

I love your woobie!Rodney/John comfort fics you propose though. And when Keller died in one time line, Rodney spent the next 25 years *bringing John back*. *snerk*

[patk.livejournal.com]

Yes, so far she's not all too convincing in that role. Right, if they would still be cut off from earth, it would be another matter but they aren't. And even Keller herself didn't want the job permanently as we saw at the end of season 3 when she approached Weir with the question of her replacement. I would love to see a more mature and capable CMO of appropriate age, say, 40? *G* But that's an entirely other matter and don't get me started on how very much I would love to see a *credible* and mature female leader in the series. Not necessary leader of the expedition but, say, a Traveler-ship? *G*

Imagine an woman of that age (yeah, okay, let her be attractive, after all we *do* have an audience to please and neither Elizabeth nor Sam was hard on the eyes, quite the contrary ;-) ) with matching experience and credibility, someone who's proven what she can do, has razor-sharp brains, a single-minded devotion to the well-being of her people *and* Larrin's lack of scruple when it comes to choosing methods to get her way. Someone not necessarily likeable but possibly dangerous. Now *that* would put John in trouble. ;-) Okay, I digress... *G*

>>I love your woobie!Rodney/John comfort fics you propose though.

*g* You and me and probably a thousand fangirls out there as well. :-)

>>And when Keller died in one time line, Rodney spent the next 25 years *bringing John back*.

Despite the possibility that he perhaps wouldn't get a chance with Keller the second time around. John even *told* him so.

[sgamadison.livejournal.com]

Oooh, good point on the Keller timeline there.

Don't get me started on the strong, mature women leaders in sci-fi thing. If she's strong then she's ugly. If she's pretty, then she's young. If she's pretty and strong and mature, then they have to make her seriously flawed somehow--like totally insane.

I *really* think you'd like David Weber's Honor Harrinton series. In the first book, she's sent to a dead end posting because she made an admiral look bad and she's given an *impossible* set of duties to perform. Instead of whining about it (which is what her brand new crew wants to do, as well as blame her for being there) she grits her teeth and *gets it done*. Her crew goes from resenting her to hating her to being willing to die for her. Really great space opera stuff too.:-)

[patk.livejournal.com]

>>If she's pretty and strong and mature, then they have to make her seriously flawed somehow--like totally insane.<<

Or she will become a victim of her own success - as John has pointed out so appropriately. But to save the script authors' honor: I really think they wouldn't have written Sam out of the series if "Sanctuary" hadn't interfered with their schedule and I actually liked the idea that, when they got rid of one female leader they substituted her with another woman of strong caliber and of an age that actually makes experience *possible*. But regarding sci-fi in general: yeah, it happens more often than not that I have to shake my head about a casting decision for a female character, let alone a female *leader*.

Honor Harrington, yes, I think that could be a character after my own heart from what you've told me. :-)

[sgamadison.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think they would have written Sam out, but it does annoy me that the wrote *Elizabeth* out to bring AT in, and then she left when her contract was up to go do Sanctuary. It was obviously the right move for her as an actress (particularly since they've canceled SGA) but I was never happy with her on SGA. I felt like she was underutilized as a character, but then she had to be, because if you played to Sam's strengths, you would either have her trampling on on Rodney's toes or John's authority--neither of which was acceptable to me. So instead she was like this wooden caricature of herself. I really like Woolsey much better in the role of expedition leader and am only sorry that we won't see much more of him.

Oh do try the HH series. It will not disappoint!

[patk.livejournal.com]

>>No, I don't think they would have written Sam out, but it does annoy me that the wrote *Elizabeth* out <<

No matter the reasons, I disliked the fact that they wrote Elizabeth out and, for the record, that they felt the need to wrote Carson out by killing him. I can't help it. I need a long time to really "click" with a cast but when I do, I start to view them all as important to the series-dynamics even if I dislike certain character traits in the one or other character. It's like family: even if uncle Willy or aunt Sophie trample on your nerves, they *are* part of the family and they're missed if they're gone.

What you said about Sam on Atlantis, yes, that's pretty insightful and correct. I'm not and never was a fan of SG-1. I watched it in the beginning but never developed a fannish preference for it but I know enough to understand that Sam was pretty much SG-1 scientific "brain" as well as a good soldier and outranks Sheppard. What you say about her trampling on Rodney's toes or John's authority - I guess that was mainly what SGA-fans feared and hated about the idea when it became public that Sam would become the new leader of Atlantis. Since I never got to know her very well in SG-1, I didn't miss anything in her character but was simply glad that she seemed to be clever enough to recognize that she shouldn't immediately meddle with the people who had years of Pegasus-experience over her. But I can see how SG-1 fans or even just long-time audience would see her as different as from how she was in SG-1 and would not like that very much.

All I have to do is imagine John and/or Rodney transferring to another base (= series) and see them become someone very different from what they were in Atlantis. I wouldn't like it and I imagine that SG-1 fans felt the same.

Woolsey OTOH is a page that has not much written on and can therefore develop in any direction without alienating a lot of SG-fans of whatever variety and from what I've seen of him so far, it is enjoyable because he was very different from both, Elizabeth as well as Sam, and him being a civilian (I love the idea of Atlantis having civilian leadership) *and* a bureaucrat - neither a scientist nor a soldier or a diplomat (at least not much of a diplomat) - makes for interesting situations. Really, it's a shame the series got canceled. :-(

[sgamadison.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed SG1, but I was not the die-hard fan that couldn't accept that SGA was a different (and IMHO, better) show. I did get a little tired of the constant rant about how Sam would've done x,y,z. I would often counter with, yes, but she has different responsiblities now, her role as expedition leader means she's *not* on the front lines, etc. but I myself disliked seeing her as such a two-dimensional character on SGA. Turns out in the season four deleted scenes, there are some great Carter scenes that were cut for lack of time. Time, I might mention, spent on showing us incredibly, overly long shots of a ship approaching something or space battle scenes. Ironically, the *new* show promises to be more character-driven. Too bad it is with characters I have no desire to watch.

I don't blame TH for refusing to come back, even as a guest star. They treated her pretty shabbily in my opinion. But I would dearly like to know what the original story arc would have been with her during season 4. Season 5's Ghost in the Machine was clearly a somewhat sloppy attempt to wrap up that particular loose end, though I really don't know why they even bothered. Hmmm, this sounds a little grouchy, but I think that's largely because I *loathed* Whispers as an episode and the same writers are penning the movie. Bye, bye SGA. And when the movie tanks, it will be blamed on the actors and the aging demographic who watches them rather than the abysmal script-writing.

Ah, Woolsey in GITM was a gem though! I loved his 'do your worst' ultimatum, while the whole time his face is saying, 'don't call my bluff, please don't call my bluff'. Utterly priceless!